If You Jog, Then You Are A RUNNER!!

In this episode, Rochelle and Josh discuss running terminology, training zones, and how to listen to your body for optimal running performance. They explore concepts like zone two running, pace versus heart rate, and the importance of easy runs for adaptation.

 key topics

• Differences between jogging and running
• Understanding zone two and aerobic training
• Listening to your body versus relying on metrics
• The importance of easy runs for recovery and adaptation
• Misconceptions about junk miles and training intensity

 Takeaways

1. Running in zone two is about conversational pace and oxygen efficiency.
2. Listen to your body to determine your pace, not just heart rate or GPS.
3. Easy runs are crucial for recovery and long-term improvement.
4. Strava and other apps are useful but should not dictate your training decisions.
5. Every runner's zones and effort levels vary day to day, so adapt accordingly.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to running terminology and culture
02:20 The evolution of jogging and running language
04:46 Listening to your body versus metrics
05:32 Pace versus heart rate in zone two training
07:19 Are junk miles really useless?
08:24 The role of apps like Strava in training
09:37 Historical running technology and simplicity
10:01 Does pace matter in jogging?
13:19 The importance of recovery and easy days
14:34 Encouragement to share and discuss running experiences

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hey Josh.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey Rochelle, how you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Good. What's happening this weekend?

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Heading up to uh East Coast to the US here in Massachusetts and uh racing the Falmouth Road Race, which is a seven miles or uh 11.2K. So super random in both countries.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Yeah, very random. I don't think I've ever heard of a race even being 11 kilometers. Like it should be 12 or 10.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, it's it's super random. We we do have a we do have a US uh 12k championship here, but for some reason they're do this race is for the last 50 years has always been seven miles, and I don't know why. So that's what we're racing.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Bizarre. Yeah, this weekend I'm taking the training group up to King's Park because we've got the city to surf coming soon, so it's quite a hilly course, and in King's Park there's this like set, like it's a bit of like a long strip of grass and it's on a hill and it's called the Green Mile, and it's not a mile, it's like 1.3 kilometers. But uh we're gonna do like yeah, we're gonna do like reps up and down this hill.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So we did it a few weeks ago, but I think I've I think this is the second or third time you guys have mentioned having people go up and down this hill, so yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah, we're doing that again this week.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It's good, and the weather's good at the moment too. Like it's not raining this weekend, it's just super cold, so it should be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

No, it's it's whenever you can get nice race, nice running weather, racing weather, anything. It's it's it you gotta take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Exactly. So I know you wanted to have a chat about like jogger or jogging. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, so I mean, I thought it'd just be cool to, you know, within running culture, there's so many terms, phrases, and whatnot that you, you know, with social media now and you've probably just heard stuff like since you were, you know, a little kid, just and you just don't even think about it anymore. But like just words and phrases that people use and you don't think about them, and to like actually go into them and just you know, just talk about them a little bit. Because some of them might be outdated of them, some of them might, you know, lot line up what we know now or thinking anymore. So I just thought it'd be kind of cool, you know, just uh to have terms that I thought of and terms that you thought of, or anyone else that has any other terms too that, you know, suggestions too of something that's just like, hey, like I've been hearing this since I was five, and what does this mean? So um yeah, I like you said, I think like jogging, jogger is probably, you know, a pretty good one to start because you know, jogging's running, but it's kind of got developed into this uh at least here, like kind of I don't know if it's like a negative thing, but like, you know, the runners kind of kind of seem to like want to be gatekeepers to be coming for going from a jogger to a runner, and if you're jogging, you're still running and you're a runner, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Is it right? And I think a really good place to start is like in Australia, running in zones is now like really cool. So like running around like zone one or like people say like low zone two or zone two, like what does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, I mean there's there I think the data and stuff that's out there right now has created like so many different terms and whatnot. So, and I and the zone two thing is definitely picked up in like that I've been seeing and hearing about over the la past, you know, few years. And I think a lot of people have different definitions of what zone two is. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

What do you say is zoned?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I mean, if I'm going with zone two, I would always consider zone two to be something that's pretty aerobic, like conversational pace. You know, I would consider zone one to be recovery, which is like below 60% heart rate, 60% uh, you know, effort or whatever. But zone two is very conversational pace. You know, if you're running too hard, you're not getting the benefits that you're trying to achieve on the day. You know, zone two running should be like, you know, your muscles and everything getting better at uh moving oxygen between them and whatnot. So uh it's a necessary zone to train in, but I think people kind of confuse it because it can be a wide range and it's a different range for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Absolutely. And I mean, a really good thing is like if you're running side by side with a friend and your friend is struggling to like answer any questions that you've got, you need to obviously slow it down and recognize that that person is definitely not running in zone two. It's probably more of a zone three or a zone four for them. So it's being able to like adapt and accommodate to like different people as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, no, definitely. I think I actually was uh saw something the other day about Jack Daniels that was talking about like just basically aerobic running, which is what I would consider the zone two. And he was talking about like how much bent, like if you're trying to do run zone two and you run too hard or you run too slow, you're not actually getting the benefit of running in zone two.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Because your body always will find a way, some energy somewhere to get done when it needs to get done. And sometimes it's burning fat, which is not the goal for the day, or burning too many carbohydrates, which is not the goal for the day. So being sticking to, you know, the correct zone is important on the day.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Absolutely. And would you run zone two to pace, or would you run zone two to heart rate? This is a question I get a lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I usually I I'm I'm probably I'm a little bit older, so I have a tendency to stick with more of how I feel. And if I like my heart rate might say one thing, but if I'm feeling like I can't talk and I'm struggling to talk, then it's a pace I need to slow down. Like today, um, you know, I had a workout yesterday and I was running, and if I tried to run any faster than I was running, which was like three minutes or so a mile, or two minutes per a mile or per case slower than like my threshold pace, it would not quite have been conversational the way I wanted it to be. So it it it I have a tendency to really listen to my body, which in turn can also help you a lot in race and knowing, you know, feeling out where you are.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah. So and I think that's a really good thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

If you do like your heart rates, you will have your zones.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah. It's really funny because like a coach to like effort and I coach to like predicted paces. So when I get somebody who jumps on board and they're like used to coaching themselves or like running themselves to heart rate, it's really hard to like have that conversation with them and explain to them like the purpose and the reason why we don't just run to heart rate all the time. But I think you explained it well with how you adapt yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah, I mean heart rate is important to look at and but it can also be you know a bit deceiving in ways too. I mean, because if you're gonna use heart rate, then you should start using everything too. You start looking at lactate, you know, what different fuels you're burning at each zone and stuff. And from day to day that can change. I mean, you just have a bad night's sleep, and it's like doesn't mean you're any worse shape, it just means that's what it is for the day. It is as long as you know I think Yeah, it is. And as long as you've been consistent in your training, you're fine.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Absolutely. What about junk miles? Have you heard that term before?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I have heard the term junk miles, and I think it um it dep you know, junk miles, you know, it depends on how much of them you're doing and how slow you're going and stuff. But I would say that more often than not, there's not really a thing as junk miles. If you're out there moving and your heart rate is up and you're in a zone one or a zone two, you're still getting benefit of training. You just don't want to be, you know, it just comes with at a, you know, maybe a muscular, you know, skeletal muscular standpoint or something like that. Like, you know, you might get your muscles might be sore, you might you have a m you're at higher risk of injury every time you're out there training, but if you run in zone one, two, you probably won't get injured.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Safe zone. What about like uh I I find like a lot of people seem to get like really fixated around like Strava and like their watch matching like numbers and all of that. Does do you feel like like Strava shows like zone two exactly how it is that the when the person's running it and feeling it at the time?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

You know, Strava's Strava's a great thing and it's you know it's not a great thing. I feel like Strava does it does a good job with a lot of the stuff it does, uh but I don't know. I think it's so hard to say you know to to use one thing like that for for m so many people. So I think when you look at Strava and use Strava, you kinda kinda take it for like, you know, as a grain of you know, for a grain of salt salt, because you know, they're applying this, you know, algorithm or whatever that they're using across, you know, billions of people. So it's not geared towards you necessarily. So I think it's a it's a useful tool, sometimes something to use in like in the background, but not something that you should be like, Oh, I'm not ready to race this week and because Strava says this. It's like if you feel ready to go, you're ready to go. It doesn't matter what Strap says.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

No, well, it's exactly like the whole peeking on your watch, like the Garmin watch does the whole like recovery and like two lines meet each other. Yeah. It's so confusing. Like I started running when uh Timex watches were around and yeah, garments didn't even exist. So run your watch.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I had I had the Iron Man. I had the Iron Man watch. It was like you go to the thing and it just has a timer and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

An Iron Man watch for a long distance runner.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

It was basically the same thing, it's just like the little stopwatch thing on it, you know. It's got your time, the stopwatch, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah. So does your jogging pace matter? What do you think? These are things that I've written down. So if you've got other things like you want to talk about and jump in, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Like jogging pace?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

I mean, again, it just depends on what you and your coach set up for the day. I mean, if it's an aerobic day, it's it's still based on how you're feeling. You know, if you're don't you don't ever if you look at any social media thing right now, you'll think that everybody's running, you know, 345Ks every single day, no matter how fit they are. And it's like, that's not that's not reality. No, it's I'm not running that every day. I you're not running that every day, and you're a very accomplished runner. So, but yeah, no, I don't think I don't think pace is necessarily something to look at. Like I was running on uh again this morning, I was running, I tried like I was like trying to get it down a little bit, and I ran like a little bit quicker, and then I was like, the next mile I spent when I wasn't thinking about it, I slowed back off, and it's like, well, obviously, my body's telling me I need to run slower today. And other days it's like being the natural, progressive, you know, very organic moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

One thing that I've stopped doing is like with that, like one thing that I've stopped doing is putting my like titles on Strava or like other social media platforms as like easy running, because my easy running pace and effort is very different to a lot of other people's, and then I start to get comments like 430 kilometer pace, that's not easy. I'm like, well, for me it is.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

So yeah, yeah, yeah. And it also changes from day to day too. So I mean, like one day it might be easy, and another day it might be like, man, that was that was hard. I was I was running yesterday afternoon and I was I ran my first mile and it was like well, it was like eight something, so like over five minutes a K. And I was like, Well, that's this is the run we're having right now. So just gonna get through this, recover, and that that's it. And that that that's totally okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

It is okay, and like your first mile or your first kilometer should always be the slowest one that you have. So I mean, you can only get better from there, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, I mean I say the same on that run, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

It didn't change.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, it didn't change that day, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah. Well, I always say like good runners also jog too. So like you look at the Kenyans, like look at yourself, like myself and Matt and some of the training group that I've got, like good runners have to run slow. Like running fast overall doesn't actually mean you're gonna get quicker all the time. Like sometimes if you've just got one pace, like, and then you jump into a race, you're gonna be a one-pace pony, and you're not actually gonna have like any like variety in what you can do and play with.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So and the body's really good at adapting too. So if you stay at one pace all the time, like your body's gonna be like, oh, I'm used to running this, this is no big deal. But as soon as you like change it one way or the other, the body might freak out and be like, Whoa, like we're dumping lactic acid here, we're doing this, we're not doing this. Like, go back to that pace you always run.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah. So start singing a song, then you'll know it's conversational if it's supposed to be like a jog or an easy one.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

You should you should you should have full conversations, you know. If you're if you're like getting lost in your conversation while you're running, that's a good pace to be uh to be running, especially on an easy day. The workout day, it's a little bit different, but for the sake of this this talk, yes. Zone two, aerobic running, all conversational.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Absolutely. I agree. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I yeah, I mean, not really, but I think the biggest thing is uh the I think people just need to understand, and not people, but just understand like every day you're out there, it's gonna change. And you need to listen to your body, and one day it might be fast, one day it might be slow, and that's okay. And don't don't assume what you're seeing on Strava or on social media is the norm because you're also always seeing a snapshot, and probably what people want you to see as the best of what they're doing. So, you know, the easy days are important, and the easy days are where you adapt from the hard days. You know, if you're running hard every day, you never get a chance to recover, and that's you don't recover, you don't make an adaptation in training running harder, you make an adaptation from running from a harder run running easy, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

It does. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

So, but yeah, I mean, as long as you're out there and you you if anyone's out there running tomorrow, they should be able to talk about this on their run, what we're talking about. And whether they agree or disagree, they should still be able to talk about it, and that's that's an easy aerobic run.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I think that's a really good place to leave it. Like if people agree with us, leave a comment, or if you disagree with us, let us know as well. Like we love to hear both sides of the story.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, you see everyone's training is different. So yeah, I'd like to, you know, like you said, just let's hear what everyone has to say about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Absolutely. Well, all the best this weekend. I hope you do well in your seven mile race.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yes, my my 11.2k mile race. I'll be sure to I'll be sure to post about it. It's kind of kicking off my fall season, so I'm a little unsure where the fitness is, but we know we'll find out this week. And there's there's no better way to tell than a race.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So absolutely awesome. Well, all the best. And if you subscribe and like to this, it really helps because it helps grow the podcast. Tell your friends about Ronversation. It's a conversational paced podcast for your easy pace running journey or your warm ups and your cooldowns. But until next time, let's keep the Ronversation going.